The pivotal votes of a small numÂber of members of the General Synod who helped to defeat the women-bishops Measure in NovemÂber 2012 have swung to the Yes camp.
The earlier Measure was lost by six votes in the House of Laity. Instrumental to the defeat were a handful of members who, despite being in favour of the consecration of women as bishops, voted against the Measure, prompted by a concern that it did not offer enough provision for those who were opposed on principle.
Five of these members told the Church Times this week that they now planned to vote in favour.
There is no fool like an old fool.
There is absolutely nothing firm on offer – so cowed or under Welby’s spell are some conservatives that these turkeys have been persuaded to vote for Christmas [or Thanksgiving if you will]. The carrot held out [nothing firm mind you] of just one new bishop [not necessarily a diocesan mind you] who does not ordain women has persuaded them to cave in. After the women bishops, the gay bishops, something the HOB have already put in motion with the Bishop of Sheffield’s order that dioceses are to engage the Anglican Communion in facilitated conversations; and having cleared the way for the gay dean [and inviter of the Presiding Bishop to wear her hat in a church parade], to become a bishop.
It will be too late to complain afterwards for these increasingly silly old fools.
It is looking like the time for an alternative will be upon us very shortly, just as happened in the States and Canada – and the other set of fools in the HOB will find it too late to complain about that when they wake up from their arrogance and complacency in blindly following Welby thinking they are so much cleverer than others in the Communion and CofE – a continual failing of English senior clergy, whereas they just show themselves up as scheming and untrustworthy. They must think we are all idiots not realising it is them they are looking at in the mirror.
Wake up Church of England. Wake up to the danger you are in of following TEC into irrelevance.
We will Behave Like Our Hero(ine) Bishop Kate -http://womenandthechurch.org/news/wonderful-inspiring-day-in-st-albans-with-bishop-katharine/
You have been put on notice, cOE. The new standard for episcopal behaviour is the TEc Deposition Queen’s. Look to history or pay the price.
E.g., ” ‘There is a long history of disagreement in the Episcopal Church. At heart, it’s about how people read scripture. Some people argue for the primacy of scripture, and won’t accept that there are other sources of authority’ … such as me and my team of lawyers who treat canons and constitutions as we please, depose whom I will, and have the theological weight of laundry fluff with the most recent scent additives, all the assured result of My rule and reign. That Narnian Queen was a wimp. Follow Me and I will lead you the Zeitgeist Promised Land.”
Interesting – Andrew Brown in the Guardian claims that Welby is laying plans to act as Anglican Pope if Synod doesn’t do what he wants
Pageantmaster, I’m curious about the logistics of the “alternative” solution.
Suppose there’s a legitimate alternative Anglican solution without a barrel-full of CESA-type kooks and loons in it [so suppose I go out and find a billion dollars in gold bullion buried in the ground] . . . how would that work on the *local/parish* level?
Are non-establishment churches allowed to purchase old church buildings in England and proceed to be an Anglican parish-option?
#5 Sarah, as to your questions in reverse order:
There are plenty of redundant churches, Sarah, Anglican, Methodist, United Reformed, Baptist and all the rest. For example since the late 1960’s the CofE only has 9 of the 31 churches in Norwich in operation. Many of the remainder which were not redeveloped are run by an independent trust and will lease them to anyone for a suitable purpose independently of the CofE’s wishes as we saw recently, and that is just the Anglican churches. There are plenty of others, and sadly the situation is that more and more from all denominations are becoming available.
There are plenty of new churches, and this is the fastest growing area of Christianity in the UK, but they prefer warm comfortable and expandable theatres and warehouses to unheatable ancient monuments with bodies in the walls and floors, bats in the belfry and riduculous repair bills. Who in their right mind would take that on given a clean slate?
As to alternatives, they will have to decide whether they wish to have credibility or be run by kooks and loons.
Please pray for the CofE if you will, and in the face of massive intimidation, for an outpouring of courage, humility, repentence and common sense to break out among Synod members and that Christ will take back that church even now.
RE: “Many of the remainder which were not redeveloped are run by an independent trust and will lease them to anyone for a suitable purpose independently of the CofE’s wishes as we saw recently, and that is just the Anglican churches.”
That’s good news indeed.
RE: “Who in their right mind would take that on given a clean slate?”
Well — apparently Holy Trinity Brompton has taken over one or two of the redundant buildings and placed good congregations in them. And I believe there are other organizations that have done so as well. Look — if you want to be a brand *substitute* [not simply another denominational option] for the COE churches, then taking on the less substantive elements of their brand identity [not the heretical theological substance, obviously, but the more surface elements] is very important. I mean — you can just go take over a warehouse, sing some nice hillsong ditties, throw up some powerpoint on large screens, mike the ministers, encourage everybody to come casual, and make certain that all the leaders grow chin hair, acquire half-glasses, and wear birkenstocks — and maybe that will attract some non-Anglican seekers. But there’s no need to act as if you’re an actual alternative to the COE if you want that.
#7 Sarah
[blockquote]I mean—you can just go take over a warehouse, sing some nice hillsong ditties, throw up some powerpoint on large screens, mike the ministers, encourage everybody to come casual, and make certain that all the leaders grow chin hair, acquire half-glasses, and wear birkenstocks[/blockquote]
Oh dear, what a very good description of a HTB service, other than the ‘warehouse’ description, but by the time they have finished improving the interior of the churches they seed, it might as well be.
I am afraid you will be hard-pushed to find copes and chasubles here outside of the cathedrals and a few anglo-catholic and liberal faux catholic parishes. Quite a few others dress properly, but less so generally than in the US is my impression, except on formal occassions. One of the changes before Synod this time is to recognise what is the reality of how clergy are dressing these days.
I think the US experience of the last few years has shown that indeed the Anglican way is deeply attractive. The problem though with The Canterbury Way is Canterbury.
Pageantmaster, I am praying for you and for your church.
I find the idea of parliament legislating for the Church hugely sad. I cannot understand how bishops could remotely contemplate it. I had a look at John Keble’s Assize sermon of 1833 and found much that speaks powerfully to us now. For example:
The case is at least possible, of a nation, having for centuries acknowledged, as an essential part of its theory of government, that, as a Christian nation, she is also a part of Christ’s Church, and bound, in all her legislation and policy, by the fundamental rules of that Church—the case is, I say, conceivable, of a government and people, so constituted, deliberately throwing off the restraint, which in many respects such a principle would impose on them …
See: http://anglicanhistory.org/keble/keble1.html
I do not understand the temper of the times. I feel more and more like a fish out of water, just not understanding the world around me. Sorry to sound like a tired old Colonel Blimp but that is pretty much how I feel.